GFCI breakers for Al wiring

[Kristen Caldwell]

After searching high and low I'm coming to the conclusion that an
Aluminum compatible GFCI outlet does not exist.
So I want to install GFCI breakers on the associated circuits as an
alternative to fishing new wire.
How do I know if a GFCI breaker can be used on a circuit that is wired
aluminum?

GFCI breakers will still protect you if you stick a fork in a toaster
even with aluminum wire.

You should never connect a copper only rated device to aluminum wire because
it creates a serious fire hazzard. If you don't know that you shouldn't be
answering questions from people who obviously already know more than you.

I got a jar full of pennies and nickels and dimes?.

How come it hasn't caught on fire yet?

[m***@care2.com]

On 14 Apr, 07:30, "Kristen Caldwell"

After searching high and low I'm coming to the conclusion that an
Aluminum compatible GFCI outlet does not exist.
So I want to install GFCI breakers on the associated circuits as an
alternative to fishing new wire.

GFCIs protect against L-E shocks and shorts, which have nothing to do
with the risk that ali wiring posts. Al oxidises at joints, heats up &
catches fire. A gfci doesnt make the remotest difference to that. An
AFCI however would.

How do I know if a GFCI breaker can be used on a circuit that is wired
aluminum?

I'm not that familiar with US practices, but I dont expect many modern
electrical parts will have al compatible connections.

GFCI breakers will still protect you if you stick a fork in a toaster
even with aluminum wire.

You should never connect a copper only rated device to aluminum wire because
it creates a serious fire hazzard.

yup. If you need to put an AFCI in each circuit, the AFCI can have a
copper tail leading to a purpose designed cu to al connector. Follow
the proper procedure in the instructions, al behaves differently to
cu.

AFCIs arent perfect, but they do reduce risk quite a lot.


NT

[g***@aol.com]

Post by m***@care2.com
GFCIs protect against L-E shocks and shorts, which have nothing to do
with the risk that ali wiring posts. Al oxidises at joints, heats up &
catches fire. A gfci doesnt make the remotest difference to that. An
AFCI however would.

Not any AFCI actually being sold today. They only detect parallel arcs
(short duration spikes of around 60-70a). AFCIs called "combination"
devices refer to the ability to detect a parallel arc in building
wiring plus arcs in plugged in equipment.
The typical aluminum wiring failure, oxidized connections, is a series
fault.
There is supposed to be the magic "series arc" device out there in
white lab coat land but you will not find it at the BORG.

[r***@mail.win.org]

Post by m***@care2.com
GFCIs protect against L-E shocks and shorts, which have nothing to do
with the risk that ali wiring posts. Al oxidises at joints, heats up &
catches fire. A gfci doesnt make the remotest difference to that. An
AFCI however would.

I'm under the impression that current AFCIs don't protect against the
type of arc faults Al joints are prone to.

I'm not installing GFCIs to mitigate the Al risk, it's to mitigate the
general risk of operating electrical devices near water.

Post by m***@care2.com
I'm not that familiar with US practices, but I dont expect many modern
electrical parts will have al compatible connections.

Switches and outlets do, actually, but GFCI outlets seem to be an
exception.

Post by m***@care2.com
AFCIs arent perfect, but they do reduce risk quite a lot.

Do you have any references that show currently marketed AFCIs to
reduce the risk of bad Al connections?

[m***@care2.com]

Post by r***@mail.win.org

Post by m***@care2.com
AFCIs arent perfect, but they do reduce risk quite a lot.

Do you have any references that show currently marketed AFCIs to
reduce the risk of bad Al connections?

no, I didnt realise they were parallel only. Where I am in the world
we dont have AFCIs.


NT

[Sam E]

On 13 Apr 2007 23:30:11 -0700, "Kristen Caldwell"

Post by Kristen Caldwell

After searching high and low I'm coming to the conclusion that an
Aluminum compatible GFCI outlet does not exist.
So I want to install GFCI breakers on the associated circuits as an
alternative to fishing new wire.
How do I know if a GFCI breaker can be used on a circuit that is wired
aluminum?

GFCI breakers will still protect you if you stick a fork in a toaster
even with aluminum wire.

You should never connect a copper only rated device to aluminum wire because
it creates a serious fire hazzard. If you don't know that you shouldn't be
answering questions from people who obviously already know more than you.

I got a jar full of pennies and nickels and dimes?.
How come it hasn't caught on fire yet?

How much current passes through your pennies and dimes? Are they
protected by an AFCI?

[Coyote]

Post by Kristen Caldwell

"Kristen Caldwell" who doesn't know shit about wiring

After searching high and low I'm coming to the conclusion that an
Aluminum compatible GFCI outlet does not exist.
So I want to install GFCI breakers on the associated circuits as an
alternative to fishing new wire.
How do I know if a GFCI breaker can be used on a circuit that is wired
aluminum?

GFCI breakers will still protect you if you stick a fork in a toaster
even with aluminum wire.

You should never connect a copper only rated device to aluminum wire because
it creates a serious fire hazzard. If you don't know that you shouldn't be
answering questions from people who obviously already know more than you.

I got a jar full of pennies and nickels and dimes?.
How come it hasn't caught on fire yet?

All wiring devices like receptacles, switches, GFCI breakers etc. are marked
for Alum. and or copper usage.
Some are copper only some are will work with both.

If in doubt you could make a short jumper. If your circuit conductor is #
12 or #10 alum. use a copper
#12 conductor spliced to the circuit conductor using a copper/alum. butt
splice A compound such as peremetx
could also be used to coat the conductors. Permitex is a paste like
compound that contains both copper and
aluminum metals.

[r***@mail.win.org]

Post by Coyote
If in doubt you could make a short jumper. If your circuit conductor is #
12 or #10 alum. use a copper
#12 conductor spliced to the circuit conductor using a copper/alum. butt
splice A compound such as peremetx
could also be used to coat the conductors. Permitex is a paste like
compound that contains both copper and
aluminum metals.

I read that the butt splice method is not a good idea and that is why
the COPALUM pigtail splice exists. Same deal with the Ideal purple
wire nuts vs Scotchlok wire nuts that are spring loaded. In both
cases the latter exerts more force on the aluminum wire keeping it
from loosening as it inevitably expands and contracts.

[g***@aol.com]

Post by r***@mail.win.org

Post by Coyote
If in doubt you could make a short jumper. If your circuit conductor is #
12 or #10 alum. use a copper
#12 conductor spliced to the circuit conductor using a copper/alum. butt
splice A compound such as peremetx
could also be used to coat the conductors. Permitex is a paste like
compound that contains both copper and
aluminum metals.

I read that the butt splice method is not a good idea and that is why
the COPALUM pigtail splice exists. Same deal with the Ideal purple
wire nuts vs Scotchlok wire nuts that are spring loaded. In both
cases the latter exerts more force on the aluminum wire keeping it
from loosening as it inevitably expands and contracts.

There is a new device out there called Alumiconn by King Innovation
that is as good as Copalum and you don't need any special tools or
training.
It is a small terminal block with set screws in an insulating jacket.

http://www.kingsafety.com/products/alumiconn.html

[r***@mail.win.org]

Post by g***@aol.com
There is a new device out there called Alumiconn by King Innovation
that is as good as Copalum and you don't need any special tools or
training.
It is a small terminal block with set screws in an insulating jacket.
http://www.kingsafety.com/products/alumiconn.html

Yeah, that looks like a good product and it's even UL listed. But
it's not listed by CPSC as an approved repair method (yet). This
might be the best way to go in the end, the product makes sense and is
not that expensive.

[g***@aol.com]

Post by r***@mail.win.org

Post by g***@aol.com
http://www.kingsafety.com/products/alumiconn.html

Yeah, that looks like a good product and it's even UL listed. But
it's not listed by CPSC as an approved repair method (yet). This
might be the best way to go in the end, the product makes sense and is
not that expensive.

CPSC is not a nationally recognized testing lab, it is a political
entity.

[Coyote]

Post by r***@mail.win.org

Post by Coyote
If in doubt you could make a short jumper. If your circuit conductor is #
12 or #10 alum. use a copper
#12 conductor spliced to the circuit conductor using a copper/alum. butt
splice A compound such as peremetx
could also be used to coat the conductors. Permitex is a paste like
compound that contains both copper and
aluminum metals.

I read that the butt splice method is not a good idea and that is why
the COPALUM pigtail splice exists. Same deal with the Ideal purple
wire nuts vs Scotchlok wire nuts that are spring loaded. In both
cases the latter exerts more force on the aluminum wire keeping it
from loosening as it inevitably expands and contracts.

You are correct...CP/AL spring loaded nuts could be used.
I used Scotchlock spring loaded nuts for years and never had a problem

[r***@mail.win.org]

Post by Coyote
You are correct...CP/AL spring loaded nuts could be used.
I used Scotchlock spring loaded nuts for years and never had a problem

Do you have a suggestion where I could find such a nut? All the
Scotchlok nuts I have found on their site say Copper connections
only... though it certainly seems that CO/ALR spring nuts do exist
somewhere.

[g***@aol.com]

Post by r***@mail.win.org
Do you have a suggestion where I could find such a nut? All the
Scotchlok nuts I have found on their site say Copper connections
only... though it certainly seems that CO/ALR spring nuts do exist
somewhere.

The only NRTL listed CU/AL wirenut is the purple Ideal #65